It can be very isolating when your child is diagnosed with a new and scary condition and ADHD in teenagers can feel scary. It always helps to hear from someone who’s been through it beforehand, and today’s guest has experienced ADHD with bells on in her family and with her teenager. Claire Quigley Ward tells us about how her teenage years were affected by undiagnosed ADHD, and the diagnosis of her son, who is now a teenager.
You can read the full transcript of this episode of the Teenage Kicks Podcast, watch the video, or listen to the audio version of the podcast below.
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Who is Claire Quigley Ward?
Claire is the host of the podcast All Aboard ADHD, which helps parents navigate the ADHD journey. Her ADHD journey began in 2017, when her son was diagnosed at the age of 6. She also has an 8 year old daughter who she says almost certainly has ADHD, although not yet diagnosed. She also has her own adult diagnosis of ADHD.
Out of a desire to do everything in her power to support her son, and to ensure other parents never felt as alone as she had, Claire founded ADHD Winchester, as a local parent community in 2021. She has since trained as an ADHD coach (working with tweens and teens).
Find Claire at All Aboard ADHD and on Instagram @allaboardadhd.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
00:02.95
helenkwills
Claire Quigley Ward is the host of podcasts all aboard ADHD, which she started to support other parents of children with ADHD. Claire’s son was diagnosed with ADHD six and a half years ago, and she’s since had an adult diagnosis herself. Her son is now 13. So I’m going to ask Claire to share what it’s like parenting a teenager with ADHD. Claire, welcome to the podcast.
00:31.82
Claire
Oh, thank you so much for having me Helen.
00:34.86
helenkwills
um i I know that you’ve got all sorts of ADHD stories to tell and your podcast is a brilliant resource for anyone that’s kind of new to the diagnosis with their kids and um is looking for a bit of support, which is basically what we all do as parents online, isn’t it? we We get something in our lives that no one we know is dealing with and suddenly we need to reach out and the internet is a godsend from that point of view.
00:53.39
Claire
Hmm.
01:02.65
helenkwills
Is that how you started once you once ADHD entered your world.
01:09.16
Claire
Oh, yeah, completely. I mean, obviously, that was long before the podcast, but that’s exactly how it started for me, because when my son was diagnosed, he was only six and a half. And actually, that’s quite a long time ago, even in the world of social media that we live now.
01:20.75
helenkwills
Mm.
01:22.05
Claire
And and I just felt so alone. I didn’t know anybody around me in the same boat. Obviously, that subsequently changed. But one day I was reading an article, as you do, and it was the first time ever that I felt as though I could see my son in something and it was written by a woman called and Kate Peers.
01:40.12
helenkwills
Right.
01:42.72
Claire
And she was talking about her own son and her experience with him. He was of a similar age. And I thought, oh my God, that’s it. that’s That’s him. This is what I’m experiencing. And out of, I guess, pure desperation and loneliness, I sent a message to her, a DM, complete stranger, just to say, oh my God, thank you for writing this because it spoke to me so deeply um at a time I really, really needed that and that kind of began a dialogue between the two of us. And actually to this day we’ve never met but Kate really was that first person for me and who made me feel less alone and just gave me a frame of reference to to start working within and then
02:24.16
Claire
kind of everything I do in the world of ADHD I think has progressed quite organically really over that time because my way of coping was to really lean into it and to try and learn as much as I possibly could about ADHD and then I’ve always been very open about that and so gradually more and more people locally would start approaching me you know even just at the school gates whether it was about you know could they put their friend in touch with me or it was about their child and
02:37.21
helenkwills
Hmm.
02:42.09
helenkwills
Mm hmm. Hmm.
02:51.37
Claire
And that grew, so I started a support group, ADHD Winchester, where I live and we have got an amazing group there and that’s a really supportive community for parents. um and But even then beyond that, I would still get approached by people asking, could they have a call? Could they meet me for a coffee?
03:09.96
helenkwills
Yeah.
03:10.46
Claire
um And then the podcast was born because whether you have got a diagnosis or you’re in a very very very long process of waiting for a diagnosis um or even actually maybe a bit further along the line and just still feeling a bit that you’re not sure what to do next.
03:24.19
helenkwills
Hmm.
03:27.06
Claire
I just wanted to create a resource for parents that offered both credible up-to-date information about ADHD beyond the stereotypes and the kind of misinformation that we can be fed in the media a lot but also create a community where people felt
03:33.27
helenkwills
Hmm.
03:42.11
Claire
that they were connected to others who shared their experience, whether they met them or not. And that’s how the podcast came to be.
03:49.91
helenkwills
Yeah, there’s something about knowing other people who are in the same boat and um not just online, but wanting to be in the physical company of those people.
04:05.51
Claire
Yeah.
04:05.71
helenkwills
There’s something physically relieving about being around people who’ve got the same thing going on as you. And I know this from when my own daughter was diagnosed with a medical condition. ah And i knew no what well I knew one person at a great distance who had experience of it. um And I remember in those first few weeks not understanding why the hospital couldn’t put me in touch with another 20 people who were going through what I was going through.
04:38.42
Claire
Yeah.
04:38.99
helenkwills
Just wanted to have coffee with them and hear that They also had had their world shattered and see in the flesh that they were now okay.
04:51.60
Claire
Yeah. Absolutely. There’s just such huge comfort in it and I think we’ve really lost community actually in a real life sense these days.
04:58.14
helenkwills
Hmm.
05:01.25
Claire
We are kind of more in theory connected than ever, but actually probably less so.
05:04.23
helenkwills
Hmm.
05:06.28
Claire
And and this is not in relation to ADHD, but I had a similar experience myself. So my daughter had like major neurosurgery, only eight months old. She was so young.
05:16.43
helenkwills
Oh.
05:17.64
Claire
She had her first general anaesthetic at three months and then underwent this huge surgery on her spinal cord. And I was in this tiny little paediatric urology ward.
05:28.00
helenkwills
Hmm.
05:29.79
Claire
I mean, it was so small, I think there was probably only six beds. And that was the first time I really experienced that, what you’re talking about, just being, I mean, sort of literally, I wasn’t saying locked in the room, you’re not locked in, but in this
05:38.73
helenkwills
Hmm.
05:43.55
Claire
bubble of a world where actually even though everybody’s there for different reasons, there was a shared sense of, I guess, the weight and the fear and the
05:55.63
helenkwills
Mm.
05:58.17
Claire
the risk and just everything that was going on and but also through that just a huge amount of comfort because I’ve never met so many beautifully kind and open people as I did in that room and they were going through things that most people probably could we never imagine and or hope would never ever happen for their children.
06:11.86
helenkwills
Right.
06:19.19
Claire
So i I think community is so important and that sense of serving others because the podcast for me
06:19.75
helenkwills
Yeah.
06:26.61
Claire
you know, I do it off my own back. I’m also an ADHD coach, but, you you know, this is something that I fund myself and put a huge amount of my own time and energy into is it’s just so important to me that I just want to help other people. I don’t want them to feel as alone as I did.
06:43.42
helenkwills
Yeah, alone is exactly how it feels. I felt completely alone and isolated, worse than alone.
06:51.16
Claire
Hmm.
06:51.62
helenkwills
And that word isolation is, and I can imagine it must have felt very similar for you. And I think that’s what happens to everyone when something new and scary lands in their world.
06:58.11
Claire
Yeah.
07:04.06
helenkwills
um We’re going to talk a bit more about how things were and how things have progressed for you and your family.
07:10.10
Claire
Yeah.
07:10.03
helenkwills
But um first of all, I want to ask the question that I ask everyone to talk to me about, and I’m imagining that it might be quite an interesting answer from you. How was your life as a teenager growing up?
07:24.80
Claire
Oh, I think this is such a like, big question for me. and Because I think my teenagers were a really mixed bag in the sense that it was almost, I think maybe this is true of all teenagers, almost like having two sides of a coin. So On one hand, I look back now and I think, God, it’s ah an absolute miracle that just from things that happened in my teenage years that I got through them unscathed.
07:51.95
helenkwills
Yeah. Mm-hm.
07:53.42
Claire
I mean, I genuinely mean that. I look back and think, oh my God, and you just don’t realise how vulnerable you are at that age. And obviously, I’ve subsequently had an adult diagnosis, but I didn’t know that I had ADHD at the time.
08:06.20
helenkwills
yeah
08:07.14
Claire
And although looking through that lens now completely makes sense.
08:10.67
helenkwills
right
08:11.25
Claire
And then alongside that was this sort of contrasting sense of I’ve always actually had really a real belief in my ah ability, which is going to sound strange because I’m also I think someone who’s struggled with low self worth throughout my life as a result probably of many things from
08:29.14
helenkwills
Yeah.
08:31.76
Claire
having undiagnosed ADHD, you know, in my teenage years.
08:34.78
helenkwills
Right
08:35.28
Claire
And yet, underneath this quiet sense of, even though I lack confidence, I’m quite outgoing. And I’ve also just had that innate drive. So there’s always a sense of, I had all these really huge ideas and plans and hopes and dreams when I was younger. I get a bit lost along the way, don’t they? Particularly as you enter parenthood.
08:55.46
helenkwills
Oh yeah!
08:55.64
Claire
But yeah, so it was a really mixed bag as I was going to say, as you would expect, maybe you wouldn’t, but I think they were two almost very contrasting sides to me as a teenager.
09:09.98
helenkwills
Looking back, do you do you did you have any particular challenges that you now can say, oh, that was ADHD that got in the way there or caused me to experience that differently to other people?
09:27.97
Claire
I think so. and I mean, like all teenagers you want to fit in, don’t you? and That’s so important. But I think if you are a neurodivergent and obviously didn’t know that at the time, you are working so much harder.
09:42.00
helenkwills
Sure.
09:43.99
Claire
I think and everything I’ve learned about ADHD in girls and my own daughter who doesn’t yet have a diagnosis, but I’m certain that she has ADHD too, it’s there’s a huge amount of masking. And so I just so desperately wanted to be accepted and probably enough, you know, I guess there was that underlying feeling all the time, although I wouldn’t have been able to pinpoint why that um I didn’t think that I was or I was struggling or lacking in some capacity and so I know that I did a huge amount of masking and in a kind of slightly chameleon-esque way so it wasn’t that it lacked authenticity because I think the nature of masking is such that it’s not it’s not that it’s not real you kind of embody it or I certainly did but it was as though I was just trying to be accepted in so many different environments that
10:40.26
Claire
I had almost different skins in each of those worlds.
10:41.82
helenkwills
Hmm. Hmm.
10:43.54
Claire
And I know there was a period of time um in my probably mid teens, I would say, when I think my parents were probably quite worried about me just in terms of people I was hanging around with and things that I was doing. But my mum always says that there was a point where I said to her, you don’t think I’m going to be hanging around with these people forever, do you? And she said there was a moment there that it gave her a little bit of I don’t know if peace is the right word, but that sense of okay, even for me, I could see that this was a now it wasn’t a forever and that’s a very ADHD thing to you know, we think in now and not now.
11:18.01
helenkwills
Right.
11:20.57
Claire
um And that was very much in a now moment and it was born out of probably struggling socially in other areas and just gravitating towards a group where
11:21.24
helenkwills
Okay.
11:31.85
Claire
there was a sense of acceptance. But as a result of that, you then making choices that unbeknownst to me were dopamine chasing. and And I mean, I was never I should say in a caveat that I was never in trouble at school as a as a teenager with the police or anything like that. But I definitely took risky choices. um I mean, probably a huge amount of that would have been quite impulse driven, I would imagine without really understanding that was the case.
11:57.92
helenkwills
o
12:00.06
Claire
But I also know, and sometimes I look back now as I’m in my mid 40s, I’m 44.
12:00.06
helenkwills
a
12:04.36
helenkwills
Yeah.
12:04.96
Claire
And I think, God, I’d love a little bit of that invincibility that you seem to have when you’re 14.
12:08.91
helenkwills
yeah
12:09.52
Claire
You know, my God, you just, and maybe it’s a good thing that you don’t realise the risks and the vulnerability at that age, because yeah, you maybe would, we wouldn’t survive.
12:16.15
helenkwills
Yeah. Yeah.
12:20.27
helenkwills
So sorry, someone at my door said the dog’s gone nuts.
12:21.36
Claire
No, don’t worry.
12:25.13
helenkwills
It’s not a podcast episode with Helen unless the the dog makes an entrance at some point.
12:28.28
Claire
The dog goes, yes, very welcome to join the conversation. So yeah, it was, I think there were absolutely choices that were, I want to say may, but I don’t even know how conscious some of these things were. I think there was a lot of impulse there. and Thankfully, I navigated it unscathed.
12:47.62
helenkwills
Yeah.
12:47.92
Claire
and And, you know, probably a big turning point for me on leaving school. 16 to go on to sixth form college. That was probably a great shift for me too because I left school, obviously you get a little bit more independence. I think I always thought I was older than I was, you know.
13:07.02
helenkwills
Oh, didn’t we all?
13:08.95
Claire
I look at my daughter now and she’s like 8 going 80.
13:09.67
helenkwills
Well, I did.
13:11.19
Claire
Yeah, I completely did.
13:11.66
helenkwills
Yeah, yeah.
13:12.89
Claire
But I think it was a good point for me because I had, I had a group of girlfriends who are absolutely still my friends to this day. But I’ve also, I’m quite a boys girl. I’ve always had a group of boyfriends. I still do. And and when we went on to sixth form college, actually all my girlfriends went to different colleges for me and I went with the boys from my school up to the and to sixth form. And I think that almost began a slight process of, I don’t know if reinvention is the right word, but actually then you’re starting, you’re narrowing your subject area, aren’t you, and your interests. So you’re starting to pick things that
13:49.28
Claire
you actually genuinely have an interest in. So that changes your approach to learning, and even though you’re still learning a lot about yourself in that environment. And I definitely went through many more of those skins, for want of a better word, for the same reasons of wanting to be accepted and making choices.
14:01.69
helenkwills
Mm-hmm
14:05.39
Claire
And also, I would say, I think allowing people probably to treat me in a way that because of that sense of lacking in my self-esteem, I look back now and think, oh, you know, I can’t believe I let people do that to me. but um ah Yeah, there’s a lot there’s a lot of growing up, isn’t there? And I think having had that adult diagnosis now, um whilst it doesn’t really change many things for me, I think going forward, just because of having been in this world with my son for a while, it actually it’s more the unlearning, I think, or the unpicking you do when you start to reflect back and you learn more about yourself through that ADHD lens.
14:34.41
helenkwills
Mm hmm.
14:37.96
helenkwills
Mm.
14:45.04
Claire
And that’s been really interesting journey for me.
14:47.60
helenkwills
Yeah, I bet it has. I’m just interested as you were talking about getting into scrapes and and thankfully surviving.
14:55.21
Claire
you
14:55.95
helenkwills
I’m just wondering if, I mean, we all are teenagers especially ah and kids generally are really resourceful. I’m just musing. Is there anything about ADHD that, you know, maybe the spontaneity, the impulsivity does, I know it might get you into scrapes, but is there anything about it that you think helps you to be more resourceful?
15:21.36
Claire
Oh, massively. I think that’s probably one of the greatest skills of ADHD.
15:24.49
helenkwills
Hmm.
15:24.68
Claire
I think all of the challenges um and the impairments of the symptoms do have an upside to them.
15:31.97
helenkwills
Right, right.
15:32.67
Claire
You know, I think if you took, for example, ADHD brains take in a huge amount of sensory information all the time. So whereas neurotypical people are often filtering things out, for someone with ADHD, you are taking in everything around you, a sensory level sound, you know, touch, smells, a lot. And I think there are times when that is phenomenally valuable because it means that you There’s a hypervigilance there, which is exhausting, but it means you are hyperaware too.
16:03.11
helenkwills
Yes.
16:04.78
Claire
And you will pick up on the tiniest nuances and often be very quick to respond in an emergency situation or have an absolute awareness when there’s something not quite right or there’s something going wrong.
16:17.53
helenkwills
Right. Hmm.
16:19.01
Claire
And and actually, in that sense, you want that and impulsivity or there’s like two modes in the brain that usually when one comes on board from a task perspective in a neurotypical person, the other one quiets down and they they function at the same time in aid with in people with ADHD. And actually in those moments when you want people to act actually without thinking, there’s massive value in that too. I think it’s taught me um to I think I read people very, very well.
16:49.92
helenkwills
Mm-hmm.
16:51.35
Claire
And at times that’s quite tiring too.
16:53.42
helenkwills
Mmm.
16:54.29
Claire
If I’m honest, there’s things sometimes you wish you missed because I can pick up on the tiniest nuances. And I always joke with my husband and that, I mean, it’s not quite seeing the future. I’m hardly in that capacity. But it’s almost as like I often have this absolute sense of, I know what’s going to happen. I can in an instant in my brain, I can play something forward and see the outcome and the eventuality of it, which is tiring, but it’s also, I think, a real skill too, if you can apply it.
17:20.44
helenkwills
Mm
17:24.05
Claire
So yeah, I think there’s a huge number of m amazing resourceful skills that come with ADHD, if you’re able to learn how to develop those and and kind of manage the more impairing side of them.
17:24.61
helenkwills
-hm.
17:30.90
helenkwills
in
17:39.05
helenkwills
o Yeah, it was really interesting. I’m just wondering, is there anything that you, looking back, you wish your parents had known? Is there anything they could have done that would have made this easier if they’d known what you know now?
17:57.56
Claire
Good question. um I think academically I’m bright, you know, and I got through with good grades without really honestly putting in a huge amount of effort. By no means, you know, A-stars across the board, it wasn’t like that. But I think that, you know, my school reports, as you would expect for someone with ADHD, is very much that contrasting picture. So over here, you’ve got, you know, super invested in the subject, working really hard, what I would be calling hyper focus today, you know, all in amazing, through to, you know, next week, working on something else isn’t concentrating, not making enough effort.
18:29.17
helenkwills
Hmm.
18:40.47
helenkwills
Mm-hmm.
18:41.23
Claire
And I think about a lot of the times I’m advocating for my son and the interventions that we put in place for him at an academic level. like I think sometimes there’s a little bit of me deep down that’s almost advocating for myself too. you know I want to change that picture, obviously for him and his future, but I think it’s a little bit of you speaking up for yourself as a child too.
18:59.14
helenkwills
Yeah.
19:02.97
Claire
and But also the real interest-based stuff. you know I think having an understanding of how much power, because yeah people with ADHD have an interest based nervous system. So if you can unlock interest in somebody with ADHD, then you unlock huge potential and motivation.
19:23.58
helenkwills
Right, yes.
19:24.26
Claire
And I absolutely loved drama at school when I was younger, like drama, acting, and that was my absolute love. And I think we don’t we didn’t have the information available to us then at our fingertips the way we do now right in the early 90s, there was no internet, this stuff would have been much harder to facilitate.
19:45.45
helenkwills
Yeah.
19:46.38
Claire
And my parents definitely tried in their own way with what was available. But I think being able to channel that and direct that a little bit more in line with my natural interest and my skills versus the sense of and academic expectations I think there would have been huge value in that. And I think that’s probably why for me, really the biggest change actually started when I went on to university because I took a couple of years out after my A-levels and worked for a bit. And then it’s because you’re picking your own path.
20:17.02
Claire
And then the moment you pick your own path, you’re shaping your world and your destiny without really understanding.
20:18.05
helenkwills
Hmm.
20:23.27
Claire
I definitely didn’t want understand that’s what I was doing then. But but then things really start to change. for you in that sense. And I do, I very much understand my parents’ motivations, you know, they were both born in the early 50s, so and you’re both from west coast of Scotland, a completely different environment. And that sense of education was about security and jobs and your future because they had to provide that safety for themselves that they perhaps didn’t have in the way we do growing up.
20:46.16
helenkwills
Yes.
20:49.05
helenkwills
yeah
20:52.59
Claire
And I completely understand it, but um I’ve tried very much with my children to really unlock as much as I can in them and who they are and where and help them find their natural interests and then try and facilitate that, but particularly with my son who struggled so much academically. and He’s a bright kid, but you he’s not designed to be in the classroom.
21:14.50
helenkwills
Yeah.
21:16.18
Claire
He’s made to move.
21:16.89
helenkwills
Right.
21:17.22
Claire
And so I’ve worked really hard to build his self-esteem around his sport, which is his greatest love in life.
21:17.62
helenkwills
Mm-hmm.
21:23.95
helenkwills
Mm.
21:25.60
Claire
um
21:25.60
helenkwills
Mm.
21:26.67
Claire
So I think it’s the low self-esteem, isn’t it? If you can find things, everybody is good at something and really help them shape their sense of self around that’s what I guess I was probably lacking a lot. um And I’ve taken that into my adult years and i’m I’m trying really hard not to pass that on. and I want to help them.
21:46.60
helenkwills
Mm.
21:47.58
Claire
I want to help them feel good about themselves.
21:51.89
helenkwills
Yeah, that’s all so interesting and I found myself resonating with quite a lot of it, which which always seems to happen whenever I have a guest here talking about ADHD.
22:05.61
helenkwills
Tell us a little bit about your your son’s diagnosis and how that how how things have been for you and then As a second part to that question, I’m really interested to know what hormonal changes and coming into the teenage years. I appreciate he’s a young teenager, but what they have done to change the ADHD, if anything.
22:33.36
Claire
Yeah.
22:38.77
Claire
Yeah, it’s an interesting period, isn’t it, when you’re entering the early teens. and So he was diagnosed at six and a half and was very young and his diagnosis was actually almost, I want to use the word accidental but that’s probably, it’s not really true, and but compared to the stories that people have nowadays and the wait list certainly post COVID it wasn’t actually the experience that I had because I never went seeking a diagnosis.
23:09.22
Claire
I went to the GP with him, um he was six, I had a toddler, I was really struggling, I was on my knees and I thought it was me, I just thought I was an absolutely useless parent and so what am I doing wrong here because I just can’t seem to get anything to work and you know you, I know you shouldn’t compare but you do, you’re comparing to what you’re doing versus is other people and
23:21.66
helenkwills
a
23:32.65
helenkwills
Yeah.
23:33.74
Claire
you know, the results and what’s happening.
23:34.64
helenkwills
Or what you think other people are doing.
23:37.16
Claire
Yeah. And what you what you can see, absolutely. and You know, we would, we we don’t actually really go out to eat that often these days, but in those days, you know, when you’re trying desperately to be, you think you can be that parent that’s got it sorted.
23:39.44
helenkwills
Yeah.
23:49.53
Claire
And and we would go out with like, this makes me laugh.
23:50.03
helenkwills
Yeah.
23:52.64
Claire
I had this belief that, well, if I just took my children to restaurants from day one, then they would know how to be in a restaurant, which is just absolutely laughable.
23:57.51
helenkwills
Yeah!
23:59.60
Claire
But I would always be the one with the toddler, you know, under the table, stood in the high chair, you name it, but always next to me would be the two impeccably behaved children, you’d be like, Oh, my God, you, what are you doing to me here, people, please.
24:08.19
helenkwills
Yes!
24:13.45
Claire
And so I thought it was me, I went to the GP, and the GP, mercifully, thank God, referred me, um went along to see a ah consultant psychiatrist with pediatric consultant psychiatrists, as you’re saying, with my son and at the end of that first appointment meeting he said because I have in those days did things face to face I have my son with me and he couldn’t sit still you know six like bouncing off the walls and interrupting constantly
24:40.87
helenkwills
Hmm. Hmm.
24:45.28
Claire
He said, do you know, I think I could make a diagnosis, but obviously we have to go through that proper process. And I was really taken aback. It’s like a diagnosis, what do you mean? Like nothing, I mean, I wouldn’t say this now, but wrong with my son.
24:56.07
helenkwills
Hmm.
24:58.35
Claire
um It’s me. and And so I was really, that’s why I use the word surprise because it was not on my radar at all.
25:06.10
helenkwills
Right.
25:06.38
Claire
And like everybody, you you have, you know very little about it. What you do know is a stereotype and, um
25:12.68
helenkwills
Yeah.
25:14.74
Claire
That then began a process. He was diagnosed. We did all the and the usual things that they do with the parent assessments and and then through the school and he was given a diagnosis at six and a half. And it’s the best thing that ever happened to him.
25:30.12
helenkwills
Hmm.
25:33.21
Claire
I really believe that. I think it meant because it meant that we understood him and his brain and from a very young age,
25:34.94
helenkwills
Why?
25:42.28
helenkwills
Right.
25:43.18
Claire
we could then advocate for him and we could help shape the support and the understanding that he needed based on his brain.
25:49.86
helenkwills
Yeah.
25:52.00
Claire
And as I said earlier, my way of coping was just to really lean into it and to learn and read as much as I possibly could.
25:54.51
helenkwills
Mm-hmm.
25:59.39
Claire
um Because then at school when he was struggling, um socially when he was struggling, I could just try to navigate that in the best way. that I could with the information I had about who he was and it offered a sense of probably a compassion you know that you might not have had if you’re just struggling and you can’t understand why you can’t get your child to do certain things and and that’s been a massive learning curve by the way I mean I don’t think that that ever stops I’m still learning and I’m still adapting because every day as a parent is something you’ve never experienced before right so
26:31.44
helenkwills
Yeah. Right.
26:37.05
Claire
I don’t know what I’m doing with a 13 year old any more than I knew what I was doing with a six year old at the time. But um i’m yeah I’m so grateful, so grateful to this day that I was so on my knees that I went to the GP in the first instance and that he referred me and that that happened because I really firmly believe that
26:51.44
helenkwills
Right.
26:58.63
Claire
we’ve been able to completely shape his academic experience so far, his interests, everything in line with who he is, with that understanding, to become a team, I guess.
27:09.51
helenkwills
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It sounds the way you’re describing it as a diagnosis. And I’ve heard people say this before, diagnosis doesn’t fix it, but it tells you where to look and how to respond.
27:36.19
Claire
Yeah, massively, because you’re understanding their brain, you know, fundamentally, and obviously i didn’t know this about myself at the time, but he his brain is wired differently.
27:39.11
helenkwills
Yeah.
27:45.65
Claire
And it it’s not a case of, you know, if he could, he would.
27:45.92
helenkwills
Yeah.
27:51.62
Claire
No child wants to
27:56.69
Claire
not conform. No child wants to be different to everybody else. No child wants to be you know problematic or struggling.
28:03.28
helenkwills
Yeah.
28:03.69
Claire
you know That’s just not what children want. They want to be liked and understood and loved and accepted.
28:10.05
helenkwills
Mm hmm.
28:10.76
Claire
and and And so it really began that absolute journey of understanding his brain, like why he would struggle with certain things. And again, that still I’m still learning every day
28:23.64
helenkwills
Hmm.
28:23.98
Claire
um ah about ADHD is the most fascinating neurodiversity, and um and then advocate and put in the scaffolding and support and interventions that he he needs. and And with those, and and many of them are reasonably simple things, you can see such a huge difference, but it requires letting go of the shoulds it requires changing the narrative and that’s a really hard thing to do and I struggled with that in the beginning particularly with judgment you know I was almost on high alert you know just that constant sense of adrenaline and cortisol because you want to protect your child and support them and um yeah it’s hard but and then you gradually have to let go of this stuff um and you’re trying to educate other people along the way people that matter and
28:49.28
helenkwills
Mm-hmm.
29:05.86
helenkwills
Yes, yes, I know that feeling. Mm-hmm.
29:17.65
Claire
You know, but yeah my parents who are amazing and really supportive and they and really understand it now in the beginning, obviously they didn’t either and so they that’s ah it’s all been a learning journey for us as an entire family, I think.
29:26.00
helenkwills
Yeah. Yeah.
29:33.22
Claire
But it is.
29:35.95
helenkwills
Hmm.
29:36.57
Claire
that’s the best thing that happened, honestly. I think when you can understand somebody and their brain and you compare it to their needs and you can meet them where they are and you can build that trust and and that connection,
29:41.13
helenkwills
Hmm.
29:50.41
Claire
um then I think the relationship that my son and I have, I hope that continues as he gets older, but we are, we’re a great team and what’s, I think, fantastic about when you focus on building a relationship with somebody that is has a foundation of trust, then it means that you can call them out on the stuff, and it’s particularly valuable, I think, when they become a teenager. You know this you know where you can call them out on things, and you know where to be compassionate and empathetic and sympathetic and patient, and all of that stuff, and it becomes a balance.
30:18.79
helenkwills
Yeah.
30:26.76
Claire
And you know then he’s going to be willing to listen to me because he trusts in the moments where he He’s really struggling or that he needs my support. I’m absolutely there for him, but it’s I think it is. Yeah, I can’t emphasize enough how I’m andm just so grateful that I’ve been able to learn and grow with him, I think, and just just change and do what we needed to do for him and our family since he was actually really little.
30:45.42
helenkwills
Yeah.
30:49.16
helenkwills
Yeah.
30:56.86
helenkwills
I’m just listening to you describe this and I’m thinking um
31:03.48
helenkwills
that as you go through the teenage years you’re already equipped with everything you need to be able to get through those with with the minimum amount of trouble and stress because this is something that I’ve learned um Mostly through having, well, I don’t know. I’m i’m a counsellor. um um ah ah In therapy, you learn to meet people where they are. As you said, that’s exactly what I do as a job now. And having trained to do that has really, really improved how I cope. Coping’s not even the right word. I’m thinking if my kids will listen to this, which they never will,
31:50.37
helenkwills
what word would they like me to use, um how I coped with my kids.
31:53.02
Claire
Manage, navigate.
31:56.45
helenkwills
um But i’m I’m thinking about my own feelings, my own stresses and strains of wondering if I’ve got it right with my kids, given that they have changed so much, which they do.
32:05.06
Claire
Mm.
32:09.55
helenkwills
I mean, kids do from zero right through to adulthood. and through through life but I’ve learned as a therapist to meet people where they are and I meet my kids where they are as often as I can remember to do that and
32:28.07
helenkwills
Life is more straightforward as a result. I think I appreciate them better.
32:31.50
Claire
Mm.
32:32.67
helenkwills
I think they know that I appreciate them better. we don’t I don’t always get it right. We don’t always get it right.
32:37.79
Claire
Yeah.
32:38.37
helenkwills
But I’m better equipped to try and figure out where it is they’re coming from when they’ve maybe pressed one of my buttons or I’ve pressed one of theirs.
32:43.62
Claire
There’s…
32:50.28
helenkwills
So I feel like you’ve got all that training under your belt. You’re going to be fine with teenagers.
32:55.10
Claire
Oh, I don’t know about that. Because like everybody, you’ve never done this bit before, have you? And I’m, I am by no means a perfect parent, right?
33:00.26
helenkwills
Exactly.
33:03.00
Claire
Like, i as you said, then you get triggered by stuff, you have your buttons pressed. And actually, one things I’ve become really aware of is, um, because within ADHD, a big part of that can be emotional dysregulation, actually, in those moments where I’m overwhelmed, or I’m struggling, and my brain’s just at full capacity, and something happens in that moment, it’s exceptionally difficult to, to, to sort of breathe, and like pause, and gather yourself without reacting, and it happens. But ah for sure, all the time, and you know, the other day, I had a situation where
33:41.66
Claire
um my My husband was away. My son had been had come home from school because he had a sore tummy. Then it was the end of the day and my I’d been ferrying my daughter around to clubs and then she was just outside playing for 10 minutes before I was going to get her in the bath. And I just thought, I’ve got like 10 minutes. I’ve just got to do a couple of bits for work. And then obviously cue the tears from her. And she came in right in that moment where I was just, just focusing on something. And, and I could really feel the the stress from that in my brain, because I couldn’t almost, that my brain couldn’t navigate that because it’s like, no, no, no, no, no, I just need to do this, I just need to do this.
34:14.03
helenkwills
Mm-hm.
34:20.42
helenkwills
Yeah.
34:20.61
Claire
And I didn’t give her the like, support and
34:23.78
helenkwills
Yeah.
34:24.25
Claire
sympathy and the kind of patience and love she needed at that moment. I didn’t. I was grumpy. And afterwards, I said to her at bedtime that I was really sorry that I didn’t. um I do this a lot. I try really hard to like own.
34:36.80
helenkwills
Yes.
34:37.96
Claire
because we’re all learning, right? We’re all making mistakes all the time. um I just said to her, I’m really sorry that I didn’t, you know, that I was grumpy and that I didn’t stop and make sure you’re okay and kind of give you what you needed then. And obviously she immediately was a bit like, yeah, because I felt like this. And I’m like, I i totally understand you were right. And that was wrong with me. And I’m just wanting to say that I’m really sorry. So I try and do that stuff all the time, all the time, right?
35:00.56
helenkwills
Brilliant. Yeah.
35:04.76
Claire
Because it’s hard, isn’t it?
35:05.14
helenkwills
Yeah.
35:06.28
Claire
This stuff is 24 seven. But I just, I just, yeah, we’re all human and I think. As you said, life does get a bit easier for it if you just kind of been willing to accept this stuff in yourself as much as in them. But ah I’ve had to do a lot of work on myself over the last few years, um you know, since I had my diagnosis alongside just probably suffering, kind of certainly pre-COVID, just some burnout emotionally as a parent, trying to navigate everything.
35:23.74
helenkwills
Hmm.
35:39.44
Claire
and starting to look learn or unlearn things about yourself and that’s a real, I’m a work in progress too, I think, but I can invent, yeah, the value in that’s been been really huge for me.
35:49.14
helenkwills
Yeah, we all are.
35:56.21
Claire
um
35:56.92
helenkwills
Yeah.
35:57.67
Claire
But I am not a perfect parent at all. I just want to say that before anyone’s listening thinking. I i have not got it all sussed. I have not got it all sorted. I have no idea what the teenagers will bring. I’m actually more nervous for that for my daughter than for my son ah because so she really knows how to press my buttons. But I don’t know. I think you just do the best that you can do right and hope that you it’s enough to have an amazing relationship with them, I hope.
36:24.27
helenkwills
Yeah, yeah. And also to remember I think during the times when the relationship doesn’t feel so amazing and you worry that it’s gone off track.
36:31.53
Claire
Hmm.
36:33.55
helenkwills
um That is also normal and not necessarily anyone’s fault and not necessarily needing to be fixed right now because you’ve got a foundation and you just keep working and you shift again and you learn some more. because we all change and as you’ve just alluded to, parenting one teenager is not the same as parenting the second, third and fourth teenagers because they’re all human beings with their own personalities and experiences and their unique ah and needs.
36:50.79
Claire
Hmm. Yeah.
37:04.27
Claire
and needs, right, as well.
37:06.83
helenkwills
So you’ve ah you’ve got to do it and you change. We’re molded by what happens to us and the relationships we have. So I’m not the same parent of a teenager five years later as I was when I first became the parent of a teenager.
37:20.80
Claire
yeah Yeah, absolutely, because you’ve learned and kind of developed and grown in that time as well.
37:24.44
helenkwills
So the next one coming along is going to get a completely different experience.
37:31.63
helenkwills
yeah And had things happened to me that have changed how I show up in the world,
37:35.56
Claire
Yeah.
37:38.71
Claire
And you get older as well. I think that’s the other thing, you know, you’re, you’re aging with it too. And there’s, there is value in that one. I mean, obviously the energy level is going down, but there’s value in that too. I think as you get older, the way you feel about things shifts.
37:49.64
helenkwills
yeah
37:52.09
Claire
Um, and that, that helps massively.
37:52.88
helenkwills
yeah
37:54.90
Claire
I, I heard an analogy not that long ago about parenting teenagers, and I really liked it because it’s a very visual one for me. And obviously you can very much relate this to ADHD as well. And it’s the it’s about how instinctively, and I’ve definitely been guilty of this, we kind of want to fix things for our kids all the time.
38:11.26
helenkwills
Yeah. Yeah. Hmm.
38:15.95
Claire
and But actually we can’t, particularly as they get older and they get more independence. And it’s not about trying to take them off the rollercoaster or stop them getting on it in the first place. It’s like holding their hand through it. And um I really like that because particularly the emotions of ADHD, they really are a rollercoaster and it’s not even, it could be every moment of every day, it could be a high and low, but um the fact that just, navigating those feelings with them, as opposed to trying to fix it, which I would have would have been a default.
38:48.67
helenkwills
Yeah.
38:49.39
Claire
And I have to work really hard to catch myself. I mean, I definitely still do it.
38:53.42
helenkwills
Yeah.
38:55.54
Claire
m But that that was one that I really liked.
38:55.61
helenkwills
Yeah.
38:58.44
Claire
And also another one that I heard was about um catching the ball. So and again, this is visual and I can I can see this when I think it is that as teenagers are having you know all those changes, my doorbell just went there so I’ll say that again, as teenagers are having all those changes hormonally it’s and you’re getting like a deluge of just crap thrown at you whether they mean to or not in a moment that just just to catch it you do not need to throw that ball back you do not need to bat it back just catch it
39:23.79
helenkwills
Mm-hmm, yeah.
39:31.56
helenkwills
Oh!
39:33.20
Claire
And I’m trying so hard to do that.
39:35.23
helenkwills
What?
39:35.40
Claire
I mean, my face might might portray like I’ve been hit in the face with it, but I’m trying at that moment to almost just go and just breathe and hold it um and then kind of move forward because I like this too because they’re very visual for me and I can i can see it and I can imagine it.
39:48.76
helenkwills
Oh yeah! Yeah! i i Well, i i’ve I had a physical feeling when you said that. I felt like ah a gut punch when you said catch it because i I can totally see that and you’re so right. That’s exactly it. But the temptation to throw it straight back is enormous.
40:12.32
Claire
Oh, oh, it’s so good.
40:15.95
helenkwills
It’s so compelling.
40:18.00
Claire
And sometimes you do, right? Like sometimes you absolutely do.
40:20.44
helenkwills
Yeah.
40:21.79
Claire
and And maybe there’s times when that is needed, I don’t know, but I am trying more and more. So particularly for neurodivergent kids, teenagers too, because they are navigating a huge amount of this anyway, and then you add in the hormones into the mix to a to a developing brain.
40:38.78
helenkwills
Yeah.
40:40.93
Claire
It’s a
40:41.26
helenkwills
Yeah.
40:42.44
Claire
It’s a very difficult, kind of complicated picture. And for a neurodivergent child, they are likely to come home to their safe space and decompress and offload.
40:48.40
helenkwills
Uh-huh.
40:53.22
Claire
You know, when they’ve held it together and they’ve coped as best they can and in an environment like school all day, that stuff’s going to come out and then you add in.
40:53.52
helenkwills
Yeah.
40:59.35
helenkwills
Yeah, yeah.
41:01.92
Claire
a little bit of hormonal teenage responses in there. It is, it can be quite, you know, the instinct is to say the things that my mum probably would have said to me and and I’m trying really hard just to, yeah, just balance it a bit.
41:06.61
helenkwills
yeah
41:10.19
helenkwills
Yeah. Right.
41:18.80
helenkwills
I kind of wish that I’d known all about all of this before the kids were born, because I’ve definitely, when you talk about your mum, I’ve definitely passed on some of the things that my parents did with me that I can now see just were never going to be healthy. I’ve definitely done that to my own kids. I feel so, so guilty about it. I’m still getting it wrong, but i I now at least know, and as you say, I can go and say sorry when I’ve got something wrong. And that whole business of trying to fix things, um it’s it’s probably the the thing my kids are.
41:59.42
helenkwills
most conscious of with me, it’s it’s my biggest fault in their book, is when they come and they just want to rant and let off steam, or even just sound things out with another person in the room. And because I’m safe for them, they do it with me. And I immediately have to resist myself now, but I was used to immediately go into problem solving. Well, well you should do this.
42:25.81
Claire
Yeah yeah so I was saying fix it.
42:26.72
helenkwills
Have you tried thinking about how the other person feels in this? Of course they don’t want to be told that.
42:29.85
Claire
Oh I’m so guilty of that one a all the time, all the time.
42:36.27
helenkwills
And then my daughter will st still, she’s 19 now, and she called me out just this week on it. And I thought I’d done a ah decent job actually. And she said, no, you still turned it into a ah live lesson. I was like,
42:49.12
Claire
No.
42:50.53
helenkwills
Oh God, I can see why that came across as a life lesson, but even in the moment I was thinking I was doing okay.
42:57.17
Claire
Yeah yeah I had that the other day honestly it’s so true we’re all trying our best aren’t we it’s like we’re saying about our mums but they were doing the best with what they knew and we’re doing the best with what we know and our kids will say all the same stuff about ours and then they will do the best with what they know but they are really insightful it’s the same absolutely same the other day with my son and and I thought I was doing really well I thought I was saying all the right things I wasn’t doing the whole
43:04.48
helenkwills
Yes. Yes.
43:18.74
helenkwills
ah
43:21.66
Claire
you know, trying to fix it. And yeah i I got it completely wrong, because in his head, he heard it and interpreted it in the way it wasn’t intended.
43:29.58
helenkwills
Aha.
43:30.79
Claire
And then I had to say, okay, well, I can see
43:31.38
helenkwills
Aha.
43:34.46
Claire
absolutely why it came across like that and why it made you feel that way but like you I thought I was doing so much better and then my daughter she’s so insightful I mean she’s only eight and she comes out with things and she she really catches me almost off guard in those moments and and she said something the other day and it was like just because that’s what you would need mummy doesn’t mean it’s what I need and I was like oh
43:58.80
helenkwills
Oh brilliant.
44:00.43
Claire
Oh my God, you know, actually, that made me tingle a bit when I said that, but it it was yeah like so right. i’m not I’m trying to do what I need, or I would need or I maybe needed as a child and that made me, that’s not what you need, is it?
44:10.03
helenkwills
Yes. Yes.
44:16.88
Claire
Even right down to things of, I was putting a picture up in her room, I was sharing this story with someone the other day, And um so perfectionism is ah is a real challenge of ADHD and not because we consider ourselves, I do not consider myself to be perfect in any stretch of imagination, but it’s, and ah for me, it’s very much about trying to do everything in my power to remove the reasons for which someone could criticise me or or try to do everything in my power not to get it wrong.
44:27.95
helenkwills
Right.
44:43.90
Claire
And and so so I was putting a picture up in her room and I had the spirit level and she got really annoyed with me and she was like, mummy, it does not need to be perfect.
44:43.77
helenkwills
Yes.
44:52.64
helenkwills
Oh, yeah.
44:54.68
Claire
And I was like, do you know what, you are absolutely right. This is your room. You tell me how you want it, where you want it. And I say i was using those velcro strips, you know, on the walls. And then we’ll put it like that. And inside, I’m like having to go, oh, like swallow the discomfort of a picture hanging at an angle. But she’s right. And it’s her room. So and she she’s very, very good at pointing this stuff out to me all the time.
45:19.38
helenkwills
a
45:21.10
Claire
And I hope she continues to do it. so
45:24.32
helenkwills
She’s holding a mirror up to you.
45:25.59
Claire
She is very much.
45:28.02
helenkwills
Interesting.
45:28.95
Claire
Yeah, it’s pretty much presses my button so much.
45:29.66
helenkwills
go ah Yeah, yes, yes, probably right, actually. Yeah, she sees you and isn’t afraid to call you out because our kids are never afraid to call us out.
45:36.93
Claire
Yeah.
45:39.66
Claire
yes No, she’s not. No, she is honest, that girl to to an absolute tea.
45:44.68
helenkwills
Yeah.
45:45.63
Claire
So
45:45.81
helenkwills
The other thing that you were saying that made it just made me think um I tend to take everything that goes wrong between me and my kids as my fault and I i did it wrong, I need to do better. And I try to remind myself that yes, it is my responsibility because I’m the parent. However, They are also people who aren’t perfect, just like me. And they show up with all their shit, just the same way I show up with mine.
46:18.50
helenkwills
And we co-create the things that go wrong between us.
46:20.68
Claire
Yeah.
46:22.38
helenkwills
It’s not all me. And that doesn’t mean I need to throw the ball back at them and point it out to them and hold the mirror up to them and show them where they’ve got it wrong. It just means that I can cut myself some slack on knowing that I don’t have to be perfect and get everything right and beat myself up when I don’t.
46:41.70
Claire
Yeah because it’s hard right you know if another adult spoke to you in that way you know you’re at work or something you would respond in probably in that same way and then there might be much more justified in that moment but it’s yeah it’s you’re right it’s not it’s not we’re not responding in those moments without reason I guess or um
46:46.42
helenkwills
Yeah.
46:54.44
helenkwills
ah Yeah.
47:03.40
helenkwills
Yeah. Well, I think.
47:03.83
Claire
all that provocation, it’s just, it’s it’s a hard, really hard thing to navigate. And I see every now and then with my son, it first start probably actually in that weird way, almost like the minute they turned 13, this one day, and I was like, what is wrong with you?
47:08.66
helenkwills
Yeah.
47:17.45
Claire
You know, just thinking, oh this who And then having to remind myself like, oh, oh this is it, this is this the hormones, just like sudden like, paul and then down to normal, you’re like, I don’t know if you’re coming or going a bit.
47:25.53
helenkwills
Right. Yes.
47:32.53
helenkwills
Yes, that’s true, actually. I had a similar moment with my daughter where, ah because it it’s obviously creeping up and you’ve seen bits of it, but there’s usually a moment where you go, oh, because you’ve got that, that’s completely out of character, bigger than anything else I’ve ever seen.
47:48.76
Claire
Yeah.
47:53.65
helenkwills
what the heck, and then it dawns on you. And then you can shift into, right, okay. I mean, we we should, as parents, be doing this all the time before they hit teenage years. But at that point, you’ve got a choice to shift into um dealing with something different here, and therefore I need to change.
48:12.24
Claire
Yeah, and that’s hard though, right? Because we’re going through our own hormonal changes, which feels kind of cruel to do those things simultaneously.
48:16.95
helenkwills
Right, yeah.
48:20.41
Claire
So it’s really hard.
48:20.32
helenkwills
Isn’t it?
48:21.83
Claire
And even in your own, I don’t know about you, but growing up, I reckon this is going to sound ridiculous, but I reckon it took me into my 30s to late 30s probably to really understand my cycle and what was happening to me hormonally when I’d have days where I’d be like, what is wrong with me today? Oh, my God. And then be like, oh, yeah.
48:40.69
helenkwills
man
48:41.15
Claire
So if it takes us, you know, well into our adult life, into almost like middle age to figure this stuff out, actually, ironically, as we
48:48.02
helenkwills
Yeah.
48:49.68
Claire
start to go down the other side of it then you know we can’t expect them with their little developing brains to come to that but oh my yeah it’s it’s fun yeah oh
48:54.82
helenkwills
Not at all!
48:59.56
helenkwills
No, it’s just the fact that they think they’re 100% right about everything and then you so badly want to throw that ball back and see them.
49:08.54
Claire
absolutely and i say this stuff up you know my mum i’m sure i was an immensely difficult teenager for exactly that reason like right at the beginning when i said about that invincibility of 14 i mean can you imagine
49:14.91
helenkwills
Yeah.
49:17.88
helenkwills
Yeah.
49:18.84
Claire
So it’s yeah, is ah it’s very much a learning process.
49:18.72
helenkwills
Yeah.
49:24.76
Claire
I think sometimes the hard thing with the age difference between my kids as well is that in some ways, maybe it’s a good thing, but it means you’ve almost got to go through it twice because you’re not really going through it simultaneously. It’s like I have to do one whole load of teenage years and then at the point you’re like, then incoming is the next one. So it’s it’s like having to go through it twice as well.
49:48.93
helenkwills
ah Look, like I said, you’ll be an old hand by then, you’ll be fine.
49:51.66
Claire
Oh, I don’t know. You might have to scrape me off the floor. Well, an old will definitely be the case. You know, I don’t know about you.
49:56.86
helenkwills
ah
49:57.60
Claire
Sometimes I wish, I wonder if you could just go through parenthood and then sort of come out like your age had been frozen in time and you’re not so exhausted by it at the end.
50:04.81
helenkwills
Well, this is probably why we used to have children at the age of 14 and then just, we were five, then we could have a life after.
50:07.95
Claire
Yeah. Yeah.
50:11.63
Claire
Yeah, ah exactly. Whereas we’re trying to do both at the same time. I think that’s where a lot of those moments of just combustion, for want of a better word, come from.
50:20.53
helenkwills
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Claire, it’s been really interesting, really fun chat. um cut Tell everyone where they can find out more about you and connect with you if they want to.
50:32.39
Claire
Oh, thank you so much, Helen. um So as I said, I’m the host of All Aboard ADHD podcast, which helps parents navigate the ADHD journey. And that’s available on all the usual platforms. um So you can find me there. And episodes alternate between experts sharing kind of credible information into lots of different areas of and connected areas of ADHD, of starting with the obvious, what what is it if you really want to begin or you want to learn more
50:58.57
helenkwills
Yeah.
51:00.95
Claire
And mixed in with that are episodes with parents sharing their real life lived experience to help you feel less alone. So you kind of get a bit of both. You get the and the information if you need it as and then you have that community too. So you can just have a little listen and feel some sort of solitude and knowing that you’re not the only one going through it if you haven’t yet found your your kind of own community to to do this alongside.
51:20.57
helenkwills
Yeah.
51:25.60
Claire
But I’m also an ADHD coach. I work with kids um typically tweens and teens and parents to help them learn about ADHD, navigate that and build the skills to to cope with the challenges that they’re facing. And so you can find me on Instagram at All Aboard ADHD and also my website, which is allaboardadhd.com.
51:50.57
helenkwills
Amazing. I’ll put those links in the show notes so when people finish listening, just scroll down and you’ll be able to click.
51:57.58
Claire
Thank you.
51:58.03
helenkwills
Claire, it’s been brilliant chatting to you. Thank you.
52:00.61
Claire
It’s been so nice chatting to you as well. I’ve genuinely actually really enjoyed this conversation. It’s funny, isn’t it? like even Even this, we should be doing more of this stuff in life. and So thank you. Thank you so much for having me and um and thank you for giving me opportunity to share my experiences of parenting ADHD.